888 Poker Rigged

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BObamaJr: You may think that online poker isn't rigged. Statistical analysis has shown that 888poker is 'within EV'. Meaning; the odds-based expected outcomes for hands has been consistently followed over a long period of time. This is true, however these studies don't differentiate between hands involving: - A 'reg' vs a 'reg' (two players who have played consistently at the site and will.

Jul 26, 2010 Online Poker Is Rigged According To WSOP Winner admin, July 26, 2010 6:59 am We’ve all got steamed up after losing to one outers or been on the wrong side of a coin flip so many times on the. 888 is not fair. After doing some extensive research on poker hands dealt, and results after the river, it showed that High Stacks have a distinct advantage over Low Stacks, as they win significantly more.

People often ask me if online poker is rigged or not.
And my answer is always the same: if it is rigged, then it is definitely rigged for me. Because I have made a lot of money playing this silly little card game on the internet!
In all seriousness though, this is big concern that many people have. In fact my recent 'Is PokerStars Rigged' post has quickly become one of the most popular articles I have ever published.
So here's the short of it:
Online poker on the whole is not rigged. The financial incentives for the poker sites to maintain the integrity of their games are just too important. However, there are some legitimate concerns about some of the smaller poker sites in particular. The bottom line though is that you are the customer and you hold all the power. If you think a certain poker site is rigged, then you should withdraw all your funds and absolutely refuse to play there.
However, this is a fairly simplistic answer. So let's dig into specifics in the case for and against online poker being rigged. I will also talk about issues like bots, collusion and superusers.
Alright, let's go!

Is Online Poker Rigged? What's the Deal!


So let's get right into it. Is online poker rigged or not? What the heck is the deal here? Why do I get so many bad beats?!
When people talk about online poker being rigged the most common complaints I hear are a mathematically improbable amount of 'setups' (example: AA vs KK) and bad beats (example: you have AA, bad player with 74 offsuit hits two pair on the river).
Here is a good example of a so called setup hand:

But anyone who has played poker longer than a few days, knows that eventually these always go both ways. They are simply a part of the game, so it's like complaining about the rain.
People also often talk about a 'big stack advantage' in poker tournaments as well. This means that they believe the poker site rigs it in order for the bigger stack to win more all-in preflop coinflips (example: AK vs 99).
The logic behind what exactly the poker sites gain by rigging these hands and allowing the big stack to win more flips is a little bit less clear. Especially since most of the people who complain that online poker is rigged play incredibly low stakes, like $10 games.
Some people however claim that there is widespread collusion, bots or 'superusers' in many games. Now this is a bit of a separate issue because this sort of cheating (if true) is more likely to be perpetrated by the players themselves, not the poker sites.
However, let's put that to the side for a moment and discuss the case for and against online poker being rigged first.

The Case For Online Poker Being Rigged


So let's look at the facts for why online poker is rigged then shall we?
Well, unfortunately the facts for online poker being rigged are few and far between. The arguments in favor of online poker being rigged would be much better classified as 'anecdotal' instead.
For instance, if you go read any 'poker is rigged' thread on Reddit or a poker forum you will find that most of the comments are actually just angry, incoherent and expletive laced rants.
And they are always missing that one massively important pesky little detail:
Evidence.
Instead their arguments usually go something like this instead:
'OMGGGZZZ, my pocket AA got cracked 3 times in a row, on the RIVER, every time STUPID JOKERSTARS, rigged, I will get my lawyer and sue POKERSTARS!!!, OMFG so mad right now, how can anyone play on this RIGGED poker site???'
Now, the problem with 'arguments' for online poker being rigged like this is that while they certainly demonstrate a large amount of emotion, they just aren't supported with anything close to what we would typically deem as evidence.
And unfortunately, when making such seriously allegations and threatening lawsuits against a multi-billion dollar company you are probably going to need some of this!
The main problem here is that 'my pocket AA got cracked 3 times in a row' just doesn't mean anything. Like at all.
In fact this is such a completely commonplace and mathematically likely occurrence in poker that it is trivial to even consider.
You would need a sample size of thousands of instances where your AA was getting beat too often in order to have a real and substantive argument here.
And luckily for all of those who believe that online poker is rigged, this is actually really, really easy for them to do.
You can just use a program like PokerTracker, import your poker hands, and then filter for all instances of AA to see your winning percentage.
Pocket Aces should win approximately 85% of the time versus a random hand.
So, if you had a sample size with thousands of instances of AA where you are only winning at 70%, 60% or less, then you would have a real and legitimate complaint!
However, I have never seen anyone who claims that online poker is rigged actually produce a statistically significant sample size like this. Instead they have sample sizes of 3 hands, 10 hands or 100 hands.
Incredibly small sample sizes like this would be quickly refuted by any amateur mathematician as well within the bounds of simple variance and standard deviation.
And for all those threatening lawsuits against the online poker sites this sort of 'evidence' would also be quickly dismissed from any court of law as pure silliness.

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The Case Against Online Poker Being Rigged


The evidence for online poker not being rigged is far, far stronger. And the reason why is because once again, you can just go check it for yourself!
Most poker sites these days will allow you to download your hand histories as you play. Hand histories are a small text document which includes every bit of information about a poker hand.
For Example:
  • Exact time the hand was played
  • All player's stack sizes
  • Who bet, folded, called etc.
  • Who was the winner of the hand
  • Who was the loser of the hand

And as mentioned before, we have highly sophisticated online poker tracking programs these days like PokerTracker and Hold’em Manager.
Using the pocket AA example again, you could simply go into either of these programs and filter for this hand only. Then you could see if your winning percentage differs dramatically from where it should be.
Furthermore, it wouldn’t even take that many hands to figure this out. In order to get a sample size of 1000 instances of pocket AA for instance, you would only need to play 220,000 hands of poker.
You get dealt pocket AA 1 out of every 220 hands. 220 x 1000 = 220,000.
Now this might sound like a lot, but for anyone who plays online poker seriously and multi-tables this is not really that many hands. Any serious poker player could easily do this in a couple months.
In fact, I have actually played this amount of poker hands in one single month several times throughout my poker career.
A post shared by Nathan Williams (@nathan79williams) on

By the way if you are curious about how I play this many hands of poker, and still keep track of all my opponents, yes I do use several poker software aids and tools.
For the complete list of all poker software and tools I use as a pro at the tables, click here.
However, my suspicion is that many of the people complaining about their pocket AA being cracked too much have not even played this many hands in their entire lifetime!
After all, it is hard to play a lot of poker when you are too busy writing angry expletive laced comments on Reddit and threatening hare-brained lawsuits.888 Poker Rigged
Look, if you truly believe that your pocket AA is losing way too often then you owe it to yourself to at least do your homework first so that you know for sure.
Play a statistically significant sample of hands (i.e. 200K+), run it through a tracking program, and then post the evidence for all the world to see!
Opinions are great. Everybody has one. But what we need in order to solve the debate once and for all about online poker being rigged or not are facts. Clear verifiable evidence.
Unfortunately for all the people claiming that online poker is rigged, they never seem to have much of this. However, I know that I can look through my own database of millions of poker hands and prove them dead wrong in a second.
Another thing that would help a lot of the people who believe online poker is rigged is to simply get better at poker.

Because when you have an extremely high win-rate you won't worry about the routine ups and downs as much anymore.
This is something that Daniel Negreanu actually mentions specifically in his brand new advanced poker training course. Instead of worrying so much about the losses, just focus on winning more!

Poker Sites Have a Direct Financial Incentive NOT to Rig Online Poker


The other big problem for the online poker is rigged crowd is that the poker sites actually have a direct financial incentive to maintain the integrity of their games.
In other words, they have a clear motive NOT to rig online poker.
PokerStars for instance made $877 million dollars in revenue from poker in 2017. And that is actually a 4% increase over 2016 for all the people who think the popularity of online poker is trending downward.
What these numbers really prove though is the point that I have been making on this blog for many, many years now.
And That Is:
The poker sites themselves are the real big winners in poker and they always will be. They are the real 'sharks,' not the players.
If you disagree please tell me the name of a poker player who is making nearly a billion dollars a year. I would pay anything to get coaching from this guy!
So simple common sense and logic will tell us that when you are already crushing it beyond belief in business the last thing you want to do is change anything or risk your reputation.
No of course not. You just want to keep the gravy train rolling!
You really have to ask yourself what PokerStars for example has to gain by rigging the river in your $10 tournament. Nothing. But they have everything to lose.

You Are The Customer, You Have All the Power!


But hey believe me, I get it. Some people will never be convinced no matter what I or others say.
Even though there is absolutely no evidence to support their claims nor even a motive for many of the poker sites to rig anything, their minds are already made up.
And that's completely cool.
You can believe pink monkeys orbit the moon too and Tupac Shakur is alive and well living on an island in Malaysia with Jim Morrison.
At the end of the day though it doesn't matter what I believe or what you believe because the bottom line when you are playing poker (online or live) is that you are the customer.
And therefore, you have all the power.
A post shared by Nathan Williams (@nathan79williams) on

So if you believe that a certain poker site is rigged against you then you should vote with your feet and simply withdraw all your funds and never play there again.
Something that I can never understand is how many people complain that a certain poker site is rigged (let’s just use PokerStars as an example again) and yet they continue to play there!
Why on earth would you continue to play at a poker site that you are convinced is rigged? This defies all logic and even just common sense.
There are literally hundreds of other online poker sites to choose from. And if you are convinced that all of online poker is rigged against you then you can just go play live as well!
Also, remember that when you withdraw your funds and go play somewhere else this is a huge loss for that poker site. They rely on the rake that you pay to keep creating those multi-million dollar profits.
So if you are convinced that an online poker site is rigged, hit them where it hurts, in the pocket book. Withdraw your money and never play there again.

What About Poker Bots, Collusion and SuperUsers?


Alright, let’s get into the much more serious discussion now of poker bots, collusion and superusers.Rigged
This is a legitimate concern because unlike poker sites rigging the river against your pocket aces, there is actually real evidence that this sort of cheating has occurred.
But the difference here is that the cheating is almost always done by the players themselves.
They are often the ones who are trying to run poker bots, collude with other people at the the table or find out somebody's hole cards (superuser).
In the past several years there have been allegations of bots in particular being used on nearly every major online poker site.
And this isn't just speculation. There have been many high profile cases of poker sites publicly refunding players because their security teams uncovered gross rule violations.
Now while they rarely spell out the exact details of what type of actual cheating occurred (for pretty obvious reasons) it is clearly some sort of bot ring or collusion in many cases.
Now should you be concerned about playing against poker bots, colluders and so on? Absolutely. But here's the thing. You are battling against human nature here.

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Whenever there are significant amounts of money on the line, a small amount of people are going to engage in shady practices or even outright cheating.
Remember that little global financial meltdown we had about 10 ago? Ya, enough said.
Look here's the thing. There is always going to be some form of cheating or angle shooting in poker no matter what games you play in. And it doesn't matter if you play live or online.
Does this mean that you should never play poker again? No of course not. You just need to be realistic and vigilant when playing poker.
I would also be a lot more concerned as a mid or high stakes poker player about this sort of cheating because of the much larger amounts of money in play.
However, less than 5% of the people reading this article right now actually play in these games. I know this because I asked 1,124 of you what stakes you play a few months ago!
But look here is the bottom line once again. You are the customer. If you feel that something isn't right, then send the poker site an email, and give them some specific names and details so they can investigate.
If you do not find their reply to be satisfactory, then withdraw all of your funds immediately and never play there again.

Final Thoughts


So should you trust online poker? Is online poker rigged?
Well, I think the glaring lack of any real evidence or even a motive for most of the major online poker sites to be rigging anything speaks volumes.
But as we all know some people will never be convinced.
I get hands sent to me every single day like this one where people are convinced that it is 100% rigged against them:

However, it is much easier to just say that something is rigged against you rather than to address the real core problem: Not understanding basic fundamental poker strategy.
After having coached 100's of low stakes students before in the past, this is the real issue in my experience working with other poker players.
But since there is tons of high quality advanced poker training programs available these days to help you improve, this really shouldn't even be an issue anymore.
As for the much more serious and realistic issue of poker bots, colluding and superusers I think there is a reason to have some level of concern about this.
You should be vigilant about any poker games you are playing in and don't be afraid to report any suspicious behavior either.
All major online poker sites have a security team dedicated to maintaining the integrity of their games. It is their job to investigate your concerns!
But as I have said again and again throughout this article, at the end of the day you don't have to listen to me or anyone else. You are the customer and you hold all the power.
If you think there is something amiss with a certain online poker site (for any reason whatsoever) then my advice is to immediately withdraw all your funds and never play there again.
Lastly, if you want to know how to consistently make $1000+ per month playing low stakes poker, make sure you grab a copy of my free poker cheat sheet.

People are always curious about whether or not online poker is rigged.

The answer will always remain the same. If it’s rigged, it’s definitely been rigged for some. Because some people have made an awful lot of money playing this simple card game online.

All joking aside, the potential rigging of online poker is a huge worry for a lot of people.

Here’s the upshot of it:

On the whole, no, online poker is not rigged. The monetary incentive for the online casino sites to maintain their level of integrity across all their games is too important to risk.

There are, however, legitimate concerns regarding smaller poker sites specifically. At the end of the day though, you’re a customer so the ball is in your court. If you believe a site is rigged then you should immediately withdraw your money and never play on that site.

But, this is a simple answer to give, and you want to know the in-depth stuff. This article will dig deep into the cases both for and against the rigging of online poker. It’ll discuss things like collusion, bots and superusers.

Here we go!

Page Contents

  • 1 Are Online Poker Sites Fixed?
  • 2 Online Poker is Rigged
  • 3 Online Poker is not Rigged
  • 4 Does it Benefit the Sites to Fix Poker?
  • 5 Poker Bots, Collusion and SuperUsers

Are Online Poker Sites Fixed?

Let’s jump right into this. Do poker sites fix their results, yes or no? What on earth is the deal? Why do so many people get so many bad bets? There has to be some third party factor, right?

When people voice concerns about online poker being rigged, the most typical complaints heard are a mathematically infeasible number of ‘set-ups’. For example AA versus KK, and/or bad bets, say you AA and a bad player who has 74 offsuit hits 2 pair on the river).

Anyone who’s ever played poker for more than a couple of days will know that these things go both ways. They’re just part and parcel of the game. It’s like moaning about the rain.

Big Stake Advantages

A big stake advantage is another thing people talk about a lot in poker tournaments. Meaning they think the poker site will rig the tournament for the biggest stake to win more of the all-in pre-flop coin flips (for example, AK versus 99).

The thinking behind what exactly the poker site gains from rigging the hands and letting the bigger stake to win more flips is a lot less obvious.

More so since the majority of people who do the complaining about online poker being rigged are those playing with lower stakes. For example, ten dollar games.

Other people, though, will claim there is a lot collusion, or the use of superusers and/or bots. This is a more distinct issue due to the sort of cheating, if proven, is likely to be at the hand of the players, not the online poker operator itself.

We’ll put that on the back burner for a moment and focus on talking about the case for and against online poker being rigged in the first instance.

Online Poker is Rigged

OK, let’s dive into the facts that prove online poker is definitely rigged.

You probably got excited there, but the truth of the matter is that online poker sites being proven to be rigged is rarely to never seen. The testaments in favour of an online poker site being rigged are much more likely to be anecdotal, rather than hard fact.

For example, if you went and read the comments on any article claiming a specific site is rigged, you’ll very likely find almost all of those comment posts are angry, curse-ridden and probably incoherent.

There are issues with comments like these, claiming a particular online poker site is rigged. There’s no denying the incredible amount of frustration the person is feeling. But they never really support their argument with any real proof.

So, unfortunately, when making such inflammatory statements, threatening to take legal action against what is probably a multi-million dollar company, you’re definitely going to need some real proof.

PokerTracker

There is a program called PokerTracker that you can use. You can import your poker hands and use a filter for all your instances of AA and it will figure out your winning percentage.

A pocket ace should win around 85% of the time vs random hands.

For example, if you had a huge sample size of thousands of instances of AA, but you were winning at only 60-70% (or even less), you’d have a legitimate and genuine complaint to action.

Statistical Data

There has never been claims from anyone who say online poker is rigged that were backed up with a significant statistical data to back this up.

Rather, they have a sample size of anywhere between 3 and 10 hands. Not nearly enough to bother looking into and more likely bad luck.

So, a sample size this tiny would be refuted by even a rookie mathematician as completely within the realms of variance and normal deviation.

If you’re one of those people threatening to get a lawyer involved against the online poker site, this ‘evidence’ of yours would be quickly laughed out of court as nothing more than silliness.

Online Poker is not Rigged

Inevitably, the case against online poker being rigged is far, far more robust. The reason being that you’re able to look into it yourself.

The majority of online poker sites these days let you download your data to analyse hand histories. A hand history is usually a text document including all the information possible about a poker hand.

For example, you’ll see:

  • The precise time you played the hand
  • All the player’s stake sizes
  • Those who bet, called or folded (etc)
  • The winner of the hand
  • The loser of the hand

So, as it was covered earlier, there is transparency in data thanks to online poker tracking systems like Hold’em Manager and PokerTracker.

The Facts

Opinions are wonderful. Everyone’s got one. What’s actually needed to solve the age-old debate about online poker being rigged, or not, are stone-cold facts. Honest, clear and undeniable.

So for all those claiming that online poker is a fix, there seems to be absolutely no follow up with numbers to prove it. An expert player with years of hands under their belt could run their history through a program and prove them all wrong with one click. It all comes down to the facts of poker.

To put it bluntly. One thing that will help millions of people to know that online poker is not rigged is to get better at poker.

Does it Benefit the Sites to Fix Poker?

Online poker sites have the financial incentive to never rig their online poker games.

Another huge problem for those in the camp believing online poker is rigged is that the online poker sites have a serious financial incentive to ensure the ongoing integrity of their games.

So, put simply, they have a direct motive to not rig their online poker.

For example, the site PokerStars made $877m in 2017, revenue driven purely from poker. This is a 4% increase from 2016, for those people who also think the popularity of online poker was decreasing.

These numbers are clear proof that the online poker operators are the real winners and always will be. They’re sharks, not players.

If you really disagree then you’d be able to name a poker player making billions a year. And if you do know a guy, pass on his details because a lot of people are going to want coaching!

Poker Sites Want You to Play and Win

Common sense and logic will tell you that when you’re smashing profit targets left, right and centre, the last thing you’re going to do is jeopardise that.

Of course you won’t, you’ll simply want to keep milking that cash cow.

You should ask yourself what the likes of PokerStars would gain from rigging their games in a $10 tournament. Not a thing. But they would have everything to lose.

Why not check out some poker training sites and see how you can boost your game before playing for real.

Players Control the Situation

If you think about it, it’s you, the customer, who holds all the cards (pun not intended).

Some people, though, are stubborn and will never be moved from what they believe.

Despite the fact that there is precisely zero evidence supporting their claims, nor a motive for any online poker site to rig their games, some people’s minds are firmly made up.

Which is totally OK.

You can wholeheartedly believe that the earth is flat for that Tupac is still alive and well. You can believe whatever you like, with little to no solid proof.

At the end of it, it doesn’t really matter what you believe. When it comes to the bottom line when you’re playing online poker, you’re the customer, so you have all the power.

Don’t Use Sites You Don’t Trust

If you feel a particular site is rigged to work against you then you have the power to simply not use that site and starve it of your money. You can withdraw your cash and never use the site again.

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The number of people who complain about a particular site being rigged but carry on playing on it is immense. It defies logic. Why would you keep giving your money to a site that you genuinely believe is set up to take your money?

There are quite literally thousands of online poker sites you can play on. If you’re sure one of them is rigged, you could play live too.

Worth noting that when you withdraw your money and find somewhere else to play, this is a massive loss for the poker site. They are dependent on the rake you pay to continue aiming for that multi-million dollar win.

If you really think an online poker site is rigged, the best retaliation is to hit them in the pocketbook. Withdraw your cash and never look back.

Poker Bots, Collusion and SuperUsers

OK, here the conversation gets a bit heavier in the discussion of poker bots, superusers and collision.

This is a more legitimate worry. Where there is no evidence of a poker site rigging the river against you, there is actually solid proof of this type of cheating.

The biggest difference is that the cheating itself is, most of the time, done by the players.

They’re the ones who run poker bots, work in teams with other players at the table or figure out someone’s cards (a superuser).

Players Using Bots

There have been several allegations over the past few years of bots specifically being active on the majority of online poker sites.

This isn’t unfounded speculation. There have been a lot of high profile cases where online poker sites have publicly refunded a player due to their security team discovering a gross rule violation.

Whilst they’ll rarely to never give you the specific details of what kind of cheating has happened (obviously), it’s very clear some kind of bot or collusion has been involved.

Should you worry about potentially playing a poker bot, or people who are colluding? Definitely. But, you’re concerning yourself with human behaviour here.

When there’s a significant amount of money on the table, you’re naturally going to get a group of people who will go out of their way to try and get it unlawfully.

Remember the worldwide financial meltdown a decade ago? Say no more.

Be Aware of Those Players

Here’s the deal. You will pretty much always come up against someone cheating in the different types of poker, regardless of what game you’re playing. Live or online, it doesn’t matter.

This isn’t to say you should never play poker again! All it means is that you should be cautious, mindful and vigilant when playing.

It’s worth being concerned with mid to high stakes poker with this particular type of cheating because the pots hold much larger sums of money.

The bottom line, again, is that you are the customer. If you smell something fishy, then write to the power site and give as much specific detail as you can; names, details, etc, so they can look into it.

If you’re not happy with their response to your concern then withdraw your money and do not use the site again.

Summary

So, can you trust online poker to be fair, or is it rigged?

There’s a substantial lack of solid evidence or actually even a motive for the majority of online poker sites to be unfair. And this speaks volumes.

As for the bigger issues of poker bots, superusers and collusion, it is fair to worry about these things.

It’s important to be vigilant about the online poker games you’re playing and never be afraid to report any behaviour that you think is suspicious.

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At the end of the day, though, as it’s been said here in this article, you’re able to make up your own mind. You’re the customer, you have all the power.

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If you are unsure about a specific online poker site, then you should immediately withdraw your cash and never use the site again.